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Overview
Kim has the best job as a writer – she works in a library! Besides writing, she enjoys drums, dancing and aikido – which she has practiced for 17 years. She writes and shelves books at her local library in Tucson, Arizona.
Her first book was about Aikido, but she has written her first fiction book that involves Norse mythology and history.
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Website
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One of her favorite books:
A local bookstore she likes to frequent:
https://www.antigonebooks.com/
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Transcript
Stephen: Welcome to another episode of Discovered Word Smiths. I wanted to tell you real quick, we’ve got some changes coming up. You’ve noticed we’ve been doing author talks about their books, but also adding in author discussion on topics of interest to them. Also, I’m going to have several special episodes with some successful authors finding out what they did to get to where they’re at, but also what they’d be doing different if.
Writing did not become such a big success for them. And the other thing I’m doing a little different, I’m going to have a couple episodes where I actually talk to and interview readers. So not just authors. We’re gonna talk to people who read books, people who read lots of books and what they like. So there are some changes coming up in some new, exciting, fun episodes.
I think ahead today, I’ve got Ks Barton who writes Viking. Fiction and it’s very exciting, uh, based on nor her love of Norse mythology. And she’s really interesting cuz she does martial arts and drums and loves to dance. So she has some great things to say. So stay tuned for Ks Barton and her Warriors End Weaver book.
Here’s Kim. So today I’ve got Kim Barton talking with me. Uh, welcome Kim. I’m glad you’re on the podcast.
Kim: Hi. Thanks Steven. Thanks for having me.
Stephen: Okay. So to get started, uh, why don’t you tell everybody a little bit about yourself, who you are, where you’re from, bit about your background, some of the things you like to do besides writing.
Kim: Yeah. Um, so I’m from Tucson, Arizona. Nice and sunny all the time, which is kind of funny seeing as I like to write about Vikings. So, um, in my day job, I am a program instructor at one of our public library branches here in Tucson. And what that entails is pre pandemic during the school year. I’m a reading and homework tutor.
So kids can come in and, and they can get help with their reading. With me particularly, we can work on their homework. During the summers. We do programs where we do, it’s called connected learning and we bring in these neat kits with like robots and all kinds of stuff, and kids can just come in and they can play while they’re also learning really neat things.
And I do other things around the library as well. Since the pandemic, we can’t have any kids in the library. I do. Just normal library things, like shelf books and help people. So I also, um, I have a degree, my degrees are in literature, so I have a BA in literature and a minor in history, and then I have a master’s degree in humanities.
Wow. With a focus on literature. So a always, always had like books and stories and history and writing in my, in my life. And I think that mixture of the literature that I’ve studied and then the history led me to wanting to write historical fiction.
Stephen: And that’s great cuz I think that’s where a lot of authors come from is your experience, your life, your past, and drawing upon that a at least, uh, most seem to be that way.
Kim: Yeah, absolutely. And I, it took me a while to come to that, but now when I look back, I go, well, of course I would be drawn. To books and history. So outside of writing, I, uh, I’ve been practicing a Japanese martial art called Aikido for almost 17 years. Wow. Yeah. I even wrote a, put out a book, I think it was in 2019.
It was just a collection of. Stories and blog posts and, you know, writings I had done about Aikido and, and I also dance and drum in a, in a local community group.
Stephen: Okay, so I, I have several questions. Um, uh, so I also took martial arts, but I took a Korean style called . Oh. Uh, and I absolutely loved it. And Aikido is one of the other ones I looked at and looked into.
Mm-hmm. Um, so just do you think. Uh, the, the using the focus and the, you know, getting out the energy, do you think martial arts has affected your writing?
Kim: Absolutely. Oh yeah. And the, the discipline part too. Um, you know, sh the, the, the showing up and doing it regularly, you know, not just waiting for, you know, inspiration to strike me, to, to realize that, you know, if I wanna get better at something, I have to, to, to show up and do it.
As often as possible. You know, I never would’ve gotten better in Aikido if I had just gone whenever I felt like it. Like, oh, maybe I’ll go today, but, um, three weeks from now I’ll go and all I got better because I went, you know, early on three or four times a week, you know, whenever I could. And it also, I think it also helped me, um, be patient with the process.
You know, knowing that it’s just not gonna happen, you’re not gonna be really good at something right away. It’s gonna take a long time to develop.
Stephen: Yes. I, I, I agree. I, I can see a lot of parallels between learning and martial art and learning to write, because now you, you’re probably the same, but there probably were three or four times as many kids taking martial arts as adults.
That’s what, uh, we had. Yeah, we had
Kim: quite a few kids in our program. Yeah. There, there’s been times on and off when we had way more kids than we had adults.
Stephen: Right. And, and it seems like the kids come in and go, oh, I want to learn sword, and oh, I wanna learn to do the triple spinning, jump kicks, and you know, all of that.
And trying to get through to ’em that you can do those, but you really have to learn how to do a front kick first. If you can’t do a front kick, then you, you, you’re never really going to master and do well with the triple spinning jump kicks. Right. And it’s a lot the same with writing. Um, you know, every author I’ve met, talked to new author seems to be like, wow, I, I’m going to write a.
I have a story of someone that was very much like this, but it was like, well, I’m gonna sit down and spend four years and write the next Great American novel and be super world famous. But that’s like the only experience they had was focused on that one novel every now and then. Right? And you’re right.
The ones that got the best are the ones that came in three, four times a week, spent their hour focused on those front kicks, did the, the punches, and worried about the next step after the first steps. Uh, I, I al I’ve always thought martial arts was a good parallel for what I’m doing now with
Kim: writing.
Yeah, definitely. I, I think it was Bruce Lee who said something like, uh, I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks one time, but the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there were plenty of adults who would come in and want like to, to, to look at the people who were black belts or who were the advanced students.
And they would look at us and just be like, I wanna be. Just do this right now. And they would jump in and inevitably, you know, you would get hurt because they tried to do some kind of role too fast or they went in to, to do a partner practice and they just went in with too much energy and then they got hurt.
Yeah. So yeah, there’s plenty of adults who, who wanted to, to. Jump in and all of a sudden be a black belt immediately,
Stephen: right? Yeah, they’re definitely, especially doing the different self-defense moves and joint manipulations and and stuff with the falls, uh, you really had to be working with someone you could trust and if they really didn’t know what they were doing, I didn’t feel as comfortable working with him.
And there was one guy I worked with, he was a lot younger than I was, uh, he was only like 20 as in my forties and. But we worked well together and I knew I could trust them. And we did some of the more advanced throws and things because we didn’t rush it and we both had the foundation. So again, there’s a great parallel through for re for writers.
Yeah.
Kim: Yeah. And the whole beginner’s mind as well. I think with writing, it’s really good to keep in mind that. You know, it’s good to go and learn something new. Maybe if all you’ve written is, you know, long form fiction, like a novel, maybe it’s would be fun to go and try your hand at short fiction or anything like that, that, or just to try a new technique or I don’t play around with some kind of other way of doing things.
And go in it as if you’ve never, you’re not expecting anything, just try it. Yeah.
Stephen: Right. Okay. Well, let’s not get too far off track. We play commercial mark for hours. Um, though I, I, I would, if I ever come out your way and see ya, I’d love to see some Nik. All right. I’ve never seen some personally, so. All right.
So, uh, you’ve done, you obviously you’ve got some. Background schooling as relates to writing. Um, why did you finally start, want to start writing? You said you wrote some short stories for Aiki, but now the stuff you are writing is more historical fiction. What made you wanna start writing and why’d you choose to go to the historical fiction now?
Well, like a
Kim: lot of writers I’ve, ever since I was a little kid, I’ve always been reading and writing little stories. I remember even, uh, When I was a girl and I would make up these elaborate storylines when I played with my Barbies, you know, they weren’t, they were just in insane. So I’ve always off and on, been writing, you know, a story here or just playing around here, even telling stories.
And, um, I think what happened was, well then I, I stopped for a long time, years, maybe over a decade. I just didn’t write anything at all. And it kind of, I don’t know, like, like hurt your, hurt my soul, you know what I mean? To not mm-hmm. To not be writing when I know that’s what I really wanted to be doing.
And I ended up working on a non-fiction project where I was studying a lot of, um, mythology. I was, I had been teaching a class using the Harry Potter books to introduce the kids to mythology and history and different things, and, um, So I really got into Norse mythology while I was researching all of that, and this was maybe 12, 13 years ago.
And when I came to, to the Norse mythology, because I had already been studying Greek mythology, it’s almost impossible to get through. An English degree in college and not no Greek. I would challenge anybody to get through a, you know, an English program and not know it. But we never learned about Norse mythology.
And so when I researched it for that, that project, it was just like, ah, I loved the stories, I loved the, and I started reading some of the sagas and I don’t know, it’s just like I had finally found a world that I wanted to write in. And, um, yeah, that’s, that’s kind of how I came around. Historical, even though, yeah, I, I, I had been reading it, you know, since I was a girl, but it was like when I finally found that world that I connected with that I decided that that’s where I wanted to go.
Stephen: Nice, nice. And that’s important because you probably could have kept writing martial arts stories, but maybe not. Felt as comfortable or done as well. Uh, it definitely shows in writing when the author really loves and understands what they’re writing
Kim: about. I think so. I think so. There’s a, an ease to it.
I think when you finally get in, you get into that group, like, you know, playing music or, you know, I dance too, you know, there’s, there’s moments where you just get into that groove and it feels good and then it’s, then it’s effortless.
Stephen: So, um, real quick, I got a, a joke for you. Uh, why did Zeus not like his french fries?
I don’t know, because he made them in ancient Greece. Oh
geez. That is pretty bad. Yeah, it is. I love it. Uh, alright, so, uh, Kim, uh, what is the title of your book and tell us about it. So, uh,
Kim: the title is Warrior and Weaver, and it’s, uh, it’s about, uh, A young, it’s a, at its core, it’s a love story. It’s about a young Viking woman, even though she technically wouldn’t be considered a Viking since she didn’t actually go fight.
Um, she’s the daughter of a, of a, a rich and powerful yal, which would be like an Earl or something like that in, in English. And the, and there’s another young man. He’s the other love interest. He is part of a, he’s like the personal guard of a powerful chief den. So, and my main character, Astrid, her father, the Yal, he and his brother have been fighting in a blood feud for years.
And his brother just happens to be the foster father of my other main character of Bjorn. So it, it revolves around this blood feud. People are, you know, Astrid and Bjorn lose their loved ones over it, and then in the end they, Astrid has to make a sacrifice and for the family. So along the way though, of course there’s plenty of fighting since they are Vikings, at least on, you know, Bjorn side.
And there’s other love interests. There’s marriage offers. Um, because I wanted to focus more on. The Viking lifestyle beyond the fighting in the bloodshed that we normally see. There’s more, uh, women in my stories. There are, and there’s children, childbirth, marriages, all those more domestic things. There’s, uh, than I had normally seen in Viking books.
So this is, and this is the first of a trilogy. So, and I have books two and three coming out this year too. Fingers crossed.
Stephen: Well, the, yeah, that would be great cuz uh, I like to try and follow up with people so maybe after they come out we can talk more and see how things have changed and, uh, What your next steps would be.
That’d be perfect. Yeah, I’d love that. Okay. So you, you had a class and got interested in this, um, culture for the books. How much other research did you do to get this culture and lifestyle?
Kim: Oh, I did tons of research before I ever started writing. I read lots of the sagas. I, I read tons of, you know, Nonfiction history books about the Viking Age, about Norse culture.
Um, there’s somebody I follow on YouTube that I, he’s a Norse scholar as well, and he, I’ve watched a lot of his videos and yeah, I did a lot of research beforehand before I ever got started. But writing historical fiction, you always have to stop along the way. There’s always something that comes up that you didn’t think about or.
I’ve even looked at, um, people, uh, the reenactment groups are really helpful too. I’ve gotten, I followed them like I, back before like social media, I was in like Yahoo groups and, and we talk about things and now I follow groups, you know, reenactment groups that study the clothes or study the weapons or.
Things like that. And they’re always a really good source of knowledge cuz they, they do a lot of the work for me. You know, they’ve gone and they’ve gone through all the records and they go, this is what people were wearing and they make the clothes and so I can look at them and kind of figure things out.
So I use that a lot along the way.
Stephen: So, so during all this research, was there anything you learned or stumbled upon that you’re like, oh man, I didn’t know that, or I thought differently, uh, this is information that’s different than what was in my head, and maybe you wrote it into the book or even had to change something in your book.
Kim: Yeah. One small thing was that it looks like maybe people slept sitting up. Hmm. So they found their beds, their beds are kind of short, and the not that many people actually had beds. And there’s lots of stories in the sagas of like people sitting up when they’re sleeping or sitting up when they’re dying.
And so I’m not, I’m not a hundred percent sure, but it, it sounded like. They didn’t really sleep all stretched out like we did, and I had already written a lot and I thought, that’s just too weird. You know, I’m just gonna change that and have them sleeping. You know, lying down like we, like we do, because I just didn’t know how to get around that.
Stephen: No. So I, I love that because, uh, I’m a computer guy and I watch TV shows and movies and I laugh sometimes at the computer stuff. Even today, um, recently there’s a Keanu Reeves movie with replicas and he created clones of his family and he took their. Uh, memories in their mind and inserted it into this clone body.
But he wanted to remove some memories of a youngest daughter. So he just basically did a, a typed in search and searched all their memories. And I was laughing. I’m like, oh my God, are you kidding me? That’s just not how it works. Right. So, uh, has anyone said anything or did you, uh, get any. Anybody that read it that said, well, that’s not correct.
Cuz I know a lot of historical fiction people really, really get invested in the details, uh, when they read it.
Kim: Yeah, it, I don’t think it’s been out long enough for, I’m sure I’ll get some of that, oh, people didn’t do this or that. But I also feel like, especially with history that took place so long ago, this was over a thousand years ago.
And we don’t know everything about everyone. We have the archeological records, which are good for things like when they find, you know, what the weapons look like, or you know, how people were buried and what they took with them, you know, what might have been important to them. And we have the sagas, but they were written centuries later, mostly by Christians.
So there’s a little bit of a bias there. So, My, my take on that is that we don’t know everything about everyone. So just because there’s no proof in the archeological record that I don’t know that somebody wore, you know, men wore earrings or didn’t, or men, they, people had tattoos or they didn’t, you know, there’s, there’s spotty things about tattooing, but other cultures, Had tattoos and vikings were in contact with just about everybody, so why wouldn’t they have tattoos or, mm-hmm.
So, and I also think about like, if I live near a big university, like, so if somebody were to excavate the university dorms where the dorms were a thousand years from now, and you know, they might go, oh, everybody wore flip flops in the summer and UGS in the winter. Well, that’s not true. Every, you know, everybody who lived.
In the United States, you know, that’s what they wore. They all ate pizza and drank beer. Well, that’s not true because you’re just picking one little spot. Right? So yeah, I’m expecting to get plenty of, oh, that didn’t happen or people didn’t do that. Well, it’s called fiction for a reason. Right.
Stephen: And, and you know, I guess every author makes that balanced choice.
Uh, do I go so historically accurate, uh, that it may detract from. Parts of the story or do I keep it loose and enjoyable? And what do the different readers want? Because there’s readers that want both. There’s some that want it very strict and oh my gosh, this is the facts. And others that are like, yeah, I want a good romance, and set it in the time period so it feels like it to me.
Right. You know, uh, I mean one of my favorite historical fiction is, uh, turtle does the Civil War series that he did where the South gets machine guns and it totally changes the war. Oh yeah. Cause of time travelers.
Kim: Yeah. I think I read that. That was interesting.
Stephen: Yeah. But the thing I liked about it was he was able to, Put some things in there, uh, about the Civil War and people’s thoughts and, uh, what the different sides were arguing about.
And I actually learned more about the real civil war from this historical change in the book than I did, I think, in school. So, um, you know, take that for what it’s worth, I guess.
Kim: Well, I tried to be as historically accurate as I could, and still, you know, Have a have a story that I liked writing. I if I, if I wanted everything to be 100% historical, historically accurate, which actually isn’t actually a thing nobody knows, right?
Right. Everything and things get changed all the time. We learn new things all the time. I. I would just write, read a history book, you know, exactly that fiction, to read a story and read about characters and, and get carried away in a world, not to be inundated with facts about a time
Stephen: period. Right. So, um, what, what type of, since we talked about it, what type of feedback have you gotten from people?
Kim: Well, so far it’s been really good. They like the, um, The complexity of the relationships I have in the books, that it’s not just these alpha men, you know, running around and doing things that not only are, you know, that I’ve, I, I have a focus on women and relationships, but the men are also more nuanced than what you might typically get in a Viking book.
So, yeah, I really wanted to focus on. What was going on when people weren’t out rating? Okay. So yeah, there’s like, I, one reviewer said she liked the, the balance between the love story and the historical accuracy and the, the relationships, and there was still plenty of adventure to keep people who like that
Stephen: happy too.
Nice. So it sounds like you wrote just right with all those things for the people that would enjoy this type of book.
Kim: Right. I was writing really for myself, like I wasn’t seeing that kind of story in that time period. It was mostly just, you know, men out rating and it was, there was really violent and gory and there’s plenty of fighting in my stories, but it’s not the main thing.
And so I just basically was like, well, I would like a story like this, and that’s what I wrote, and hopefully there will be other people out there who would appreciate
Stephen: it too. Great. Good. And you said this is the first of a trilogy and you, so you’ve got two more books planned. Do you have ’em written, you’re just spacing it out or are you still finishing them?
Um, there.
Kim: The second one is written and I’m, I’m just getting a cover now and the third one is almost done. I’m doing some last minute tweaks, but I, what I did is I wanted to have all three books basically done before I released the first one, cuz I didn’t wanna release the first one and then, Regret, like I needed to go back and fix something or write myself into a corner.
So I decided I would be patient and get all three done, and then release the
Stephen: first one. Yeah, I’ve got, uh, a series I’ve been working on, not even originally intending to publish it, but now I’ve gotten up to like, uh, book five and a couple short stories to go with it. And I’ve gone back and retro some things in the first couple stories that I know are coming in the fourth and fifth one.
And it’s, uh, I mean, as a writer it’s a interesting different way because. As still a new writer, it’s sometimes difficult for me to think and plan ahead so far because once I write one book, there’s things I’ve learned, so I wanna always go change it. So, uh, I, I can understand, uh, doing it that way and I think it’s great.
I think it makes for a better book for or better series for people to read
Kim: Well, and with, with a trilogy. To me it made sense because a trilogy. Breaks it down to that, that like three act structure, you know, that beginning, middle, and end. And I don’t know if I could do that if I was writing a long series, but it, it worked really well to do it with just the three books.
Stephen: Great. So, um, I. The, the book is out. Um, where can we get it and, and what services is it available on?
Kim: Right now it’s just on Amazon and there was a little snafu with the print, so it’s only available on e-book, but the print should be out hopefully, and in the next couple weeks, by the end of January. So it was, it was, you know, beginner’s first book out kind of mistakes we
Stephen: learn.
Yeah. Yeah. We all do. Uh, but that doesn’t mean it, it should detract from the story. No,
Kim: no. It’s just, you know, just a formatting issue. So Yeah. But it’s available on ebook on Amazon.
Stephen: Okay. All right. So let’s, uh, go back off your book for a second. Um, you, uh, obviously have studied. Uh, writing. So for you, what are some of your favorite books and authors?
Kim: So, I have to go back to when I was a kid and my all-time favorite book was The Outsiders by Sie Hinton. No, it’s so very cliche for a young girl to have that be your favorite book, but it really, it really made me wanna be a writer. When I read that book, I was maybe 13. And the first like actual attempt at a novel was a total knockoff of the, the outsiders.
It just had a girl as the main character. But yeah, that book definitely Lord of the Rings, of course, for so many of my generation. And then, um, more contemporary writers and historical writers are Elizabeth Chadwick, especially her, uh, William Marshall series. She does a, i, I really admire the way she balances the, the story of the, the male protagonist.
And he’s a knight and he fights in that world and she balances that with the, the, the female side, showing women as being strong within their domestic realm. Like they don’t have to be fighting to be strong and capable. So that was a big influence on me and how I handled my own books. And then, um, and, and her histor, her historical accuracy is just off the charts.
She, she can make you just feel like you’re in that space. And then Sharon k Penman, she also writes historical fiction and the medieval period and yeah, her mostly her planned tag. It’s serious because it’s about a family and, and. That’s kind of how I, I got, was inspired by that to write about my family and I’ve got some spinoffs for my trilogy too, going back into the past and then going off into some different offshoots.
But like this whole idea of family dynamics and, and issues between fighting, you know, in fighting with families is, is something that I’m really
Stephen: intrigued with. Cool. That’s, I I love hearing what other authors, uh, inspired them. Uh, and the outsiders definitely is one worth being inspired
Kim: by. Yeah. And, and the Lord of the Rings, you know, it was just recently that I was figuring out what, what I was inspired by with that.
And I think it was that, that, um, the brotherhood and the fellowship and the, the male friendship. That I found so wonderful about it. Of course, all of the elves and, and all that, but I, you know, recently I’m like, oh, I just love that idea that these men can be, you know, just like so close to each other, love each other and have this friendship and bond that’s almost unbreakable.
And I, I really appreciated seeing that. You know what I mean? That’s not, yeah. That, that, that deep friendship isn’t just, For women.
Stephen: Right. And I, I, I love that, uh, interpretation in looking at it. Uh, cuz you don’t hear about that, uh, as much, but I totally agree. Uh, a more modern mythology that I could say the same thing about would be the, uh, sons of Anarchy TV show.
Kim: Oh yeah. That was an inspiration
Stephen: too
Kim: actually. It was. They inspired me like. How somebody who could be so brutal and violent, like when he’s with his, his companions, could love his children and his wife. Really tenderly. Yeah. So, yeah, I was inspired by that as well, that kind of, I.
Stephen: I could see that show. You know, if you like stories about Vikings and their life and world, I could see how Sons of Anarchy would also appeal to you because it’s the same type of thing.
It’s that honor and integrity, um, and dealing with problems in a aggressive, violent manner, but still having that honor and integrity. You know, they didn’t, they really, I talked to Jay about this a little bit, but they. It was weird cuz you think about they’re, they’re running guns and all these other illegal things to make their town better, but it really was better because they showed that in the show that there could be worse things and these guys weren’t just running through town controlling it and shooting it up.
Uh, you know, so it’s just a. I guess philosophical argument, uh, did they choose the best, best path to make their town better? And do you really think they did? And I really think they did make it better? And could there have been a better path? I’m really not sure. Yeah.
Kim: Yeah. It’s a, yeah. I actually, Like that show in terms of like being inspired about Vikings than the actual Vikings show.
I watched a, I haven’t watched a lot of the, the Vikings TV series because I, when I, when I read too much fiction about Vikings, it influences me in a way that I don’t, I’m not aware of, and I’m not always fond of, but sense of anarchy was, was really interesting in that way. Like, yeah, that whole honor culture was very similar.
And it was neat to see it like play out in a modern way.
Stephen: Right. Um, and, and of course it doesn’t hurt that Stephen King guest starred on an episode, so he did. Yeah. Yeah. It was like third season. Uh, he was the cleaner. He took care of a couple bodies.
Kim: Oh, that’s right. That’s right. Well, and Henry Rollins was on it too.
Yeah. So that was,
Stephen: yeah, for like a whole season. Yeah. That didn’t hurt either. No, and he actually was, I mean, there, there’s a guy that when I was younger with um, rage Against the Machine, I was like, yeah, these guys are kind of idiots or whatever. But, uh, I came to appreciate their music and then seeing him acting, I’m like, yeah, is he going to win some Shakespearean award?
No. But he does this part really, really well. Yeah. Yeah, it was fun. Okay. Uh, also, let me ask this, uh, where you live. Do you have any favorite bookstores that you like to go to? Yeah, we have
Kim: a great local bookstore. It’s called Anny. Huh. Yeah, and it’s, it’s down on fourth Avenue, which is kind of our hip downtown area.
And, um, it, it’s a fairly big bookstore and they’ve got, they, they have poetry readings and they do other kinds of readings down there. They’ve got lots of different kinds of books, and it’s a great bookstore.
Stephen: Nice. Okay. I’ll make, I’ll make sure and put a link to that one. Cool. All right, before we, uh, end this, uh, interview about your book and move on to talking for writers, not that we didn’t do some of that already, but anyway, um, tell anyone listening that is interested in this type of book, why they should get your book.
Why they should get my book? Yeah. Tough questions. Wow, that
Kim: is a hard question. Well, anybody who’s listening, if you wanna learn about the Viking culture, the Norse culture beyond rating and battles and stuff, even though there is some of that in there, you wanna try it. My book, if you wanna know what life was like for women or children, or what the men did when they were at home or anything like that, you might wanna check that out.
Stephen: Great. Perfect. Well, Kim, it’s been really great talking to you about your book. I appreciate you taking some time coming on the podcast. Thank you so much for
Kim: having me. Thank you for listening to Discovered Wordsmiths. Come back next week and listen to another author discuss the road they’ve traveled, and maybe sometime in the near future it might be you.