Mickey works with authors and offers them a great service. He runs a publicity company called Creative Edge.
Many authors have had bad experiences with publicist not actually helping them get noticed and sell books. It doesn’t appear Mickey has that problem.
I first heard him on another podcast and liked what he said about his philosophy and work. We had already connected and several of the authors he represents have been on the show (including upcoming shows with USA Today Bestseller Ann Charles and Mark Leslie Lefebvre of Draft 2 Digital and formerly Kobo Writing Life) and said nice things about Mickey and his company, so I thought it would be great to chat with him.
Authors – if you are wondering about a publicist, give Mickey a call. The authors I’ve interviewed speak highly of him and his services.
Readers – check out the authors Mickey represents and grab some great books. He has everything from new authors to USA Today Bestselling authors.
The company website – https://www.creative-edge.services/
If you want to contact Mickey direct – email@example.com
[00:00:50] Stephen: Hello, and welcome to episode 90 of discovered wordsmiths. We’re approaching 100 really quick. I’m not sure if I’m going to do something special for a hundred, like I did for [00:01:00] 50. Um, but I better figure it out really quick today. I’ve got something a little different for you. This one is for the authors more than the readers.
I have a publicist, something that is talked about at times. And most of the time, I don’t hear good things about publicists. I hear people who feel they spent money on a publicist and did not get what they thought they would get. Uh, so it’s the general recommendation is don’t use a publicist unless you think you really need one and do a little bit of research check.
This publicist seems like the real deal and somebody that we can trust to help us. Uh, his name is Mickey Mickelson with creative edge publicity. Um, several of the authors I’ve had on this show use Mickey and Mickey is the one that pointed them my direction and they have nothing but good things to say about him.
They love him. Uh, he’s been doing great. I heard him on another [00:02:00] podcast. I believe Joanna Penn’s podcast. I could be wrong on that. Uh, but he, the things he was saying, I was like, yeah, I like what he says, this guy is good. He’s not just saying things that sound businessy. It was a personal thing. And he enjoyed it.
So I asked him, Hey, would you like to be on, I’d love to talk to you. And we chatted. And it was a great chat, which you’re going to hear here in a few moments. And, uh, I actually am talking to him, myself about possible using a services. So, uh, you know, full disclosure, I guess you could say though, uh, I’m not getting paid for this and I’m not getting any bonuses for, from him for.
Saying that or using him or anything like that. So, uh, he really sounds like a good guy, uh, which I’ll find out more when I work with them closely. But judge for yourself, take a listen to the podcast. Uh, and I’ve got some links in the show notes to check out his service. Uh, in the meantime, uh, [00:03:00] I’ll ask again, anyone listening, check out the authors, go to the website.
I’ve got 8,900. Episodes with authors on there with lots of good books, find something that you like help these guys out. Um, and if you could take a moment to give this podcast a rating, give it a review. Uh, we’ve only got a couple of those and it would really help a lot. So I would appreciate it and let’s go.
Officially starting Vicky. Welcome to discovered wordsmiths today. And this is going to be an interesting interview. So I’m glad you were able to be on. Thank you for being on
[00:03:40] Mickey: Steven. Thank you so much for your support. The last two years, bringing all of my authors on and thank you for bringing me on today.
I’m very excited about
[00:03:47] Stephen: Yes. For everybody listening and you, the podcast goal and reason I started it was to highlight new authors. I was on a bunch of. Uh, groups [00:04:00] and I kept seeing authors post, Hey, I just made a hundred thousand in the first two months of the year and Hey, I just published my 57th book and I’m sitting there working on my first book going, man.
I can’t even relate to that. How do any of their advice doesn’t help me. I’m not at their level. And I realized. What’s more inspiring to me as a here, another dad that wrote a book and gets it up and boats is only first book. It took him two years and I figured, Hey, there’s a lot of authors out there.
That don’t get asked to be on interviews. Don’t get on the panels because they only have one book and they spent three years working on it and it can be disheartening. Uh, so discover wordsmiths was born, focusing on new authors and interviewing them because of that. You and I have been in touch a little bit.
You represent multiple authors that I’ve interviewed and put on the podcast through your publicity companies. This is not a author [00:05:00] interview. It’s a service for authors interview completely different. So from there, Mickey, tell us a little bit about you and your company and what you do for authors.
[00:05:10] Mickey: Yeah, we’ve, we’ve been the business since March of 2016.
And what we do for authors essentially is focusing more so on traditional media vein. Reader focused blog, bookings, book signings, radio TV, print interviews, newspapers magazines, getting book reviews with a number of different initiatives, leveraging bloggers, and the whole process behind it is allowing the authors to work on their own social media tabs, such as Tik TOK, Facebook, Twitter, what have you, but then getting an opportunity with the services that I encompass.
To compliment what they’re already doing only from a traditional media sense. And really when we started our focus [00:06:00] was more so on the indie author in kind, we built our business leveraging indie authors. Now that’s changed the bit. We have a combination of both indie authors and traditional OD traditionally published authors.
We actually have 10 New York times, best sellers we represent, we have six USA today bestsellers represent and multiple international bestsellers. All of which are indeed. And that’s, it’s been a journey over the last five years, but really our main focus. And I know it’s a long-winded answer, but it really, our main focus is building out authors and not taking a bunch of money from them to do it.
And it’s been very success.
[00:06:43] Stephen: And it sounds like I heard you on another podcast. Forgive me. I don’t remember where, and I know of, we had already been in talks, so I was like, oh, I like his outlook on the business. His why he started it and what he wants to do with it. And I was excited [00:07:00] because a lot of authors here.
Yeah. Don’t get a publicist. They don’t help. They don’t do anything. I spent thousands of dollars and they had me get on two blogs that didn’t make any sense. So it’s got a bad rap. What have you been doing for indie authors to help overcome that and actually be of benefit to them?
[00:07:22] Mickey: Yeah. And I mean, thank you for that question because the publicist that you’re talking about, and I’m not going to name names because I don’t know all of them and there’s an interesting standard as well, but I’m, I’ve not ever been in business.
To take advantage of authors and just get money. The process with us is if I don’t book the author, anything, and this is based my pricing structure, we don’t charge them anything. So really it’s, as we’re, as a result, results faced focus that we do. And to answer the second part of that question, what are we doing?
That’s maybe different I’m at the belief [00:08:00] that everything is built on. And what I mean by that is I tend to leverage smaller media opportunities, whether they’d be smaller podcasts, smaller bloggers, who don’t have as bigger reach things like that. And then as we’re building up every individual’s media resume, which is essentially what we’re doing, we will leverage going from a smaller opportunity to a medium opportunity.
And then ultimately a larger opportunity now with. That takes time. So any author who says they want to work with creative edge for three months and then call it a day, I don’t sign those individuals because I’m of the belief that we’re in the relationship business, we focus on relationships within media, but we also focus on relationships within our own client base.
And so all of the things that we’re working on and I’ve seen this happen multiple times takes time to build that. And even those authors who [00:09:00] have substantial name branding, we still do this same process. And majority of them get it as long as yeah.
[00:09:09] Stephen: And I like that because the saying, going around is it’s not a sprint, it’s a marathon.
And the people that get that understand you can’t put one book out and suddenly your JK. There’s only a few of those every now and then
[00:09:26] Mickey: it’s a shot in the dark. Sometimes it doesn’t happen very often.
[00:09:31] Stephen: You can still have a great career and make money selling books without being the overnight success.
That makes one book and you’re a household name. So when you get a new author, let’s say I come to you and say, okay, Mickey, I’ve got one book. I’ve got plans for more. What would you say to me that we would do what would be the services you could offer and what can I expect over three months, six months a year.
[00:09:57] Mickey: So every new author that, [00:10:00] that reaches out to me, or I have a conversation with, we typically do a free one hour consultation and that consultation is designed to determine whether or not it’s a direct fit between me and that author. But more importantly, are they going to be a fit within the 80 plus team that I currently represent because one individual does directly affect everybody else, especially from a media standpoint.
So for example, if I have an author who comes on your show and puts off a really bad interview and leaves a bad taste in your mouth, what’s the chances you’re going to get a sec. I’m going to be able to get a second client onto your show. It’s going to be minimal, right? So I want to find out and I want to determine whether anyone I signed as direct fit for my team first and foremost.
Now, once that’s determined, we start having conversations within that hour scope. And I find out what they are looking to [00:11:00] do with their book, whether it’s something I can even leverage, whether it’s something that I can target. I always say that my, my process is. Not focusing on that one book, but more so focusing on that author, because they’re going to put out more books over the longterm and publicity and promotion, shouldn’t be about promoting that one book.
They should be promoting what that writer of that book is so that when readers associate books, they know that it’s always going to be a good valued product. If that makes sense from an interview stamp. We have about 40 connections worldwide that we use on a constant daily, monthly, yearly basis. Those are connections that we’ve leveraged over the four or five years.
And so I leveraged those to help build up those resumes, those media resumes. And then everything else, we, we send out, press releases, we get them posted. We, we start our process and it starts the book
[00:11:59] Stephen: chain. [00:12:00] So what would be some of the first things as a new author that I could expect? Would it be interviews on podcasts or writing articles for a blog or some mixture?
Does it depend on the author? What would be the first steps?
[00:12:14] Mickey: It depends on the author. It depends on the John rhe. It depends on. How confident they are in front of a camera or a mic. If I feel that they’re not confident in either of those areas for the first month, I’m going to focus on writing with blogs, blog, interviews, guest posts, things like that to get their word out.
And then hopefully within a month to two months, they are ready for radio or podcasts or visual or TV. Now some who are seasoned, who can speak well and who I think will put on a good interview process, we start right away. We get press release posts out with every brand new release we have about six or seven different bloggers, couple of magazines, the post, all of [00:13:00] our press releases.
John are focused. So we start that and then we start attacking and leveraging our media podcasts and TV and print and everything else. So. There, there’s definitely a cycle to it. And it’s been successful over the last five years.
[00:13:16] Stephen: And you said you’ve got some besides new indie authors, you’ve got some sellers, which I assume are more trad pub.
So how do you, what do you do different if it’s an indie author, that’s somebody worked from home as opposed to somebody that is published with Simon and Schuster or
[00:13:31] Mickey: good question. There are some things that I do differently in terms of targeting in terms of leveraging the opportunities. Within that as well, these same authors will do some of the same things that the indie authors also do with the press release post.
I PR I, I get them all. There’s a TV station in the town where I live Lloydminster that does five to six interviews a month. So we’re leveraging those opportunities. And then [00:14:00] we have multiple podcasts that we say. Who interview our clients either once a month, in some cases once every week. And we go from there on that.
And then it’s just a matter of getting the word out other ways.
[00:14:13] Stephen: Okay. And so trad publishing, I’ve heard a lot. I haven’t been traditionally published that they’re still doing a lot of the marketing themselves. It’s not like back in the good old days that they’re doing a lot of it themselves. Would you say, even though they’re trying to publish a service, like yours would help anybody trad published.
[00:14:38] Mickey: Yeah. I’ve got, uh, a number of authors who are traditionally published and what we’ve found within that is the opportunities I’m leveraging actually compliments what the in-house publicists are doing at Simon and Schuster and penguin and Hachette and all of these things. Everything to keep in reminder, Stephen, is that the majority of.
The [00:15:00] public publicity houses within those traditional published firms will only publish the book for three to four months. That’s their window for opportunity. And then they stopped because they have to go onto the next opportunity that those in-house people are working on. So within us, we don’t stop after three, four months, we’re still ongoing promoting new releases and the backlist a year and a half, whatever I represent New York times bestseller, topicals.
And her newest, duology the line between a single light, which is essentially a pandemic duology ironically, we’ve been promoting that series for a good year and a half, even after Simon Schuster, which is where it’s published, stopped their efforts. And so we’re still getting stuff. Now. We’re still getting her library books for these same books and book signing and magazine and things like that.
And it’s been a year ago. So, yeah. [00:16:00]
[00:16:00] Stephen: So what should an author do? Or let me rephrase that. Would you advise an author to come to you before their book is published and you start the relationship and working on things before it’s published and how soon before? Or should they wait until it’s already published and then talk with you about.
[00:16:22] Mickey: I think it’s a combination of thing that they’re an indie author and they have some flexibility on the release time for what they’re looking for. They can reach out to me before the book is published with the premise that we’re going to develop a plan for the book when it comes out. I typically like to have my arts three months in advance, a publishing date, just so I can get it out to all the major book, reviewers and publishers and things like that.
That doesn’t always happen, but that’s in a perfect world. That’s what my goal. But it’s never a bad thing to ever talk with a publicist at any time. If the word publicist doesn’t leave a bad taste in the author’s mouth, because I know there’s that stigma out there. [00:17:00] So, um,
[00:17:01] Stephen: yeah. Yeah. And that’s why when I heard you talking and I know.
I already talked to several of the authors you represent. And then I heard you on the interview. I was like, yeah, this I could trust this guy with everything you said, and you didn’t pay me to say that was a,
[00:17:19] Mickey: you wouldn’t take the money
[00:17:21] Stephen: off to come up and visit you. I think. Somebody a stiff drink. Anyway, was it Jackie McDonald?
I think we got halfway through the interview and realized we weren’t recording the start over. I was like, oh yeah, you took it really well. So what right now there’s probably a bunch of authors listening. I try and focus on readers. So the authors are getting readers, but I know a lot of authors like.
Which is why I do two parts to most interviews. What would you tell these authors that they should maybe do or look at doing or start doing now before they even come to youth or things that you see as mistakes that authors [00:18:00] do that maybe they should think about fixing?
[00:18:03] Mickey: That’s a great question as well.
And I think the answer is multi-layered. So if it gets long, I apologize. I think. There’s a couple of schemes when it comes to this, authors need to be very grounded in terms of what the expectations are. That’s the first and foremost thing I think is important. Not every book is going to become a national bestseller, whether it be an indie or a traditional book, it’s just not going to, and authors need to understand that small opportunities will equal out to larger scale opportunity over the long run.
The way to be successful doing that is a good product. Get, get it professionally edited. Get a beta reader team, invest some money in the book. Cover, make the book cover vibrant, make it visibly [00:19:00] appealing, and then, and then have the story out there as well. Don’t second guess. Right for you is what I tell my clients all the time.
Don’t try to second. Guess what the readers are going to buy, right for you, right? What you want to put down on paper with your ideas and put it out there and not second, guess it, because there’s always going to be a reader for a book. And if it’s your fan base, if they like what you’re writing, because you’re confident in that, then they’re going to buy your books because it’s you writing.
It’s no different than me as a. I don’t second. Guess what I’m going to do with the members of my team. I just do it and I let them know and I give them the rationale behind it, but it’s still me doing it. I’m not trying to second guess what they do or don’t do the same thing. That’s the first vein of it.
And then secondly, if you are trying to look for a publicist, I don’t know if you’re going to ask this question, but I’ll address it now. Go ahead, please. If you were looking to get a publicist, do some homework, ask some questions, get some testimonials as an [00:20:00] indie author, realize that not every publicist over.
It’s all about just getting money and not doing any work for it. There are some really good people out there. I think I’m one of them, but I’ll let my members speak my team, speak for themselves on that, but yeah, just ask some tough questions and do your homework.
[00:20:19] Stephen: Yeah, I agree with that. Uh, sometimes it’s, it’s a big, scary author world out there.
And I think sometimes authors, aren’t confident. They hear people say, you got to rapid release. You have to write in this genre, you have to do this. And there’s all sorts of things they’re told and it’s overwhelming. And then it doesn’t help yourself confidence. So yeah. Asking questions and again I’ve oh, I had almost, yeah, I’m not going to bother about a publicist and again, then I heard you talking about it.
So. Uh, and lightened a bit and heart and that there are some good publicists out there which makes sense. There has to be just like there’s some good and bad authors. [00:21:00]
[00:21:01] Mickey: Yeah. And it’s not all about the money. I know that exposure. You’re not getting the dividends back from that. It’s a book getting the word out and building your brand and you can’t do that unless you’ve got someone in your corner helping you.
[00:21:13] Stephen: and I know a lot of my, and I know a lot of authors. Want to do anything, but write their books. So you have to find a good publicist, a good marketer, a good editor, a good everything. If all you want to do is write and that ends up costing you time and money rather than Mickey. I remember from the other podcast, maybe you could share this.
You had a really great story about how you started the business. It wasn’t even something you were thinking of doing. Could you share that with.
[00:21:41] Mickey: Oh, sure. Absolutely. So I worked in the corporate world for about eight years in the insurance and technology vein. I worked in Saskatchewan, actually for credit unions, teaching lenders health, sell insurance coverage, and setting up a lending and banking system.
And within that, yeah, [00:22:00] completely different world than this. But within that, one of my coworkers wrote a book. Her name is Miranda. And I used to be the special events manager for one of the chapter locations here in Canada, which is the big bookstore. And I set up a special. So I said to Miranda, I said, you’ve got this book out.
Do you want me to try and get you some signings or help you in some way, shape or form. We want an Alberta tour together. And we toured like eight different cities and worked out to eight different stores and there’s eight different signings. And then she went back to Manitoba where she lives and she did the exact same thing.
And next thing word cut out. And I met some authors. Started my own little business in March of 2016. And by August, I think I had 35 people signed up for creative edge as clients. So that’s how this all started. And then in building and starting the name and everything, my, my daughter who’s [00:23:00] autistic. She actually picked the name for the company creative edge, and she used the idea of puzzle pieces.
Connecting authors take one of those puzzle pieces happens to be blue because of the autistic, like the autism logo. So those two pieces together, but she designed all of that. She selected the name and everything, so
[00:23:19] Stephen: yeah. Yeah. I have an autistic stepson and it’s funny how people will. Underestimate, you just say they have autism and they get underestimated.
Like they are not smart. They can’t think in that. And it really, we know what triggers him and what he can and can’t do. And I’m always one to push a little bit more. And even as mom said that there are things she didn’t think he would do that he did with her. And now with both of us together, he’s getting even further.
Yeah, no for sure. Yeah. I think that’s really great. Good story. That’s a good logo and a good [00:24:00] name. I love
[00:24:01] Mickey: thank you. I appreciate that.
[00:24:05] Stephen: You are from Canada and you do have some American authors. So you represent people all over that doesn’t really matter to you. Is that correct?
[00:24:14] Mickey: That is correct. We have Canadian authors. We have a number of us authors. We’ve got authors in the UK. I have an author in Australia. And, and with all that, we have the media connections worldwide as well in all those places to, to balance that out.
So it’s become international. And
[00:24:33] Stephen: so there’s a go wide for the win argument right there that you have connections all over. You don’t want to necessarily just be on Amazon. If you’re working with a publicist, most bang for the buck. Take advantage of all your connections and all you, it’s no different
[00:24:49] Mickey: than social media as an author.
Twitter and Facebook are fine, but pick talks also we’ll take talks to the biggest right now, and then there’s other things. So yeah. You have to spread yourself out. [00:25:00] Why to have success. That’s my belief.
[00:25:02] Stephen: Yeah, absolutely. So have you noticed, or has any of the like USA bestsellers? Have they said, wow. I had a book that did.
Okay. But now I’m working with you, the publicist. I’m actually selling more books over the long-term. Have you gotten any of that feedback from those authors?
[00:25:22] Mickey: Uh, yeah. My, I have a couple of authors and Charles who is a USA today bestseller, and she’s very happy. She’d been working with me for over two years and that’s
[00:25:31] Stephen: a Testament right there.
[00:25:33] Mickey: Yeah. And I met her at the South Dakota festival of books, I believe three or two, two or three years ago. I don’t remember the date, but it’s, she’d been with me for one. And she feels that everything that I’m doing for her compliments, all the things that she’s already doing. And that’s just one aspect of it.
We’ve also got an international bestseller. Her name is Catherine Hudson, and she became an international bestseller through our efforts together [00:26:00] actually. And very well-versed, she’s got substantial books and she’s been on a number of. Media vehicles, including Fox news, pile seven 70, the nerd daily out of Australia, things like that.
[00:26:14] Stephen: Nice. That brought up a good question, uh, to partners. So is there any thing that you would advise authors not to do publicity publishing or publicity wise? And is there some things that you do that maybe authors. Usually do or think of doing, put you on the spot, but
[00:26:34] Mickey: I don’t mind. It’s a tough question, but I have no problem answering it.
I think that what authors need to realize is just because you put money into Amazon ads for Facebook ads, that they’re not always going to get the bang for the buck that they’re expecting from that traditional media is also another forum and a lot of authors who are having success, especially on ticket.
They don’t look at [00:27:00] that aspect. So they’re missing a whole circle of different things. And they’re only focusing on Tik TOK, which right now is the biggest media outlet out there for sure. But there’s so many other things that they could be doing that they’re not doing. And I’d assign an author who is very prevalent on Tik TOK, who didn’t realize this other part, this other.
And what she does now, because she’s working with me and it’s been very well for that aspect. What was the second part of the question, Steven? Okay. The
[00:27:28] Stephen: things that they do that maybe they shouldn’t or things that they should be doing that they’re not, but both sides.
[00:27:37] Mickey: I think it’s, and this might be controversial, but I think it’s okay to put that.
I think it’s important to say grounded and stay professional, especially on social media. I’m not a big fan of authors who put out a book every single month for the year. I believe that an author should be putting out two, three books, tops, and then marketing those three books. And reaping the sales from [00:28:00] that first and foremost, but I also am not a big fan of authors who essentially big for reviews via social media, begging for reviews on Facebook or things like that.
I think it’s important to get reviews, but I think you can do it in a professional way rather than look desperate by blowing up your social media, asking everybody and their dog to review your book.
[00:28:23] Stephen: That’s my opinion. I personally agree with that. Just doing the standard things you do, that people get reviews naturally without having to focus on.
[00:28:36] Mickey: I think they can, if they leverage that I have a number of authors and they don’t blow up their social media requesting reviews, yet they get reviews. They get reviews from the efforts that I’m doing. They get reviews from their arc readers, their beta readers, and other envelopes. So. It can be done and it can be done professionally if it looks
[00:28:58] Stephen: And that sounds like [00:29:00] everything you’ve said and everything I’ve heard everywhere. It is a mindset. You have to think of it as a professional career or business, and you’re doing it for the longterm. Not that one single book. So you get the people that have one book and all, they go to every group on Facebook say, Hey, buy my book.
Okay. But dude, this is a group of authors. Other authors don’t want to buy your fantasy book. They just talking about the stuff you’re in the wrong spot. People think authors. So I’m an author. They’ll buy me and that’s not correct. So I can see how the same with reviews. They, they, they, like you said, Hey, please go review my book or review my book.
But they’re only focusing on. And that’s all they’re doing.
[00:29:48] Mickey: And there’s this stigma about indie authors and maybe I’m grouping everything together. And that’s not really what I tend to like to do, but I will, for this indie authors, a lot of indie authors, their dream is [00:30:00] still to be traditionally pub.
That’s what they want to do. They want to get an agent they want to get on with penguin and have that accolade. Part of that is acting like. So, if you have an author who is mainstream, commercially viable, Stephen King type person, are those individuals going to bakery reviews on Facebook? Are they going to be, are they going to put out things that maybe are less professional and on their social media changes?
Likely not. So why would you as an Indi, if you’re trying to strive to get there yourself? Why would you do that? Because all it’s going to do is create a bad taste with media, with the traditional veins, with the indie authors who are maintaining professionalism and who have a brand in place. So you’ve alienated all of that’s the
[00:30:51] Stephen: purpose of that.
I think I see it again. It’s for my mindset that I want to have a lot of [00:31:00] books published and. Feel confident. And I think when you start asking for reviews and then you don’t get a feature on self-confidence and it may, and then you get more desperate to a vicious cycle. And I think it was Tony Robbins that always said the self-help guru guy always said, if I want to be as successful as this person, then do what that person does.
[00:31:26] Mickey: So for sure.
[00:31:30] Stephen: Of course. So we can’t all be seeming ginger JK rally. And I don’t think everybody necessarily wants to be, cause there’s plenty of books and authors that are popular and make a good living without having to be Stephen King and JK Riley.
[00:31:44] Mickey: But they do it professionally. They do it the right way.
[00:31:48] Stephen: Yeah. One of my favorite authors I’ve met recently, he wrote for 20 years before he was able to quit his job and go full. So not necessarily [00:32:00] hopeful message, but
[00:32:01] Mickey: no, and I represent authors who write two books or three books a year, and we’re actively promoting those books. They write other books, but we don’t actually promote them or they’re doing other things like they’re doing cover design or they’re.
Or they’re doing editing to help with that income. So it’s
[00:32:20] Stephen: all. All right, Mickey again, appreciate your time getting on and talking to us. Is there anything that maybe you wanted to say that I forgot to ask or didn’t ask?
[00:32:31] Mickey: No, I just want to give the premise that creative edge is a forum to help build authors brand out.
We represent traditional authors. We represent India. We represent authors and virtually every John rhe, including non-fiction. And we like to think outside the box and just build our business up and build our teams building.
[00:32:56] Stephen: Yeah. Nice love that. Great. And [00:33:00] there are multiple authors. I’ve already talked to an interview and have been on the podcast that you’ve sent my way and they’ve been great interviews, great books, great talking to them.
So anybody else listening, if you’re not working with Mickey, at least consider it. That’s why I brought him on.
[00:33:16] Mickey: Thank you could look up the client base on my website as well, www creative-edge.services, but I think our team speaks for itself and
[00:33:25] Stephen: I’ll put a link in the show notes point, everybody to your service and for hopefully, or go get a logo, but up here for sure.
Cool. Great. All right,