Will knows technology and has a PhD in technology. He uses that knowledge for his latest book.

He lives in Mississippi with his wife. Together they’ve worked on his author and publishing career, starting out with a Kids Choose Your Own Adventure book. Lately, Will has switched gears and is finishing his first adult thriller – You Will Know Vengeance.

Our discussion is focused on the thriller book that will be out soon, but we talk about the CYOA book also and contrast how different it is to write a change in genre.

His Book


Square Books – https://www.squarebooks.com/



[00:00:51] Stephen: All right, here we go. Episode 100. How crazy is that? I’m super pumped, super excited. Uh, this interview today is with will pepper. [00:01:00] Uh, we actually did this many months ago, but it got kind of back logged and it got put somewhere. I totally forgot about it. Uh, and now just getting it. And I had told them, um, it wouldn’t come out for a while, but I didn’t mean for this long, but we’ll start it off.

And this is how I met him writing a, choose your own adventure kids book. And that’s how I kind of discovered him. He’s also in the author success mastermind, which is now, uh, author. Uh, sorry, the author life, uh, group with J thorn and a bunch of others and will, and I have been to, uh, some events together.

So it was a great talk, had a great time. Uh, he, I love the shirt that he puts on. So please go check out the YouTube, uh, see what we look like if you haven’t done that before. And, uh, we had a good talk because he is changing from the kids’ books to thrillers, which I thought was [00:02:00] an interesting change. So for all of you readers out there, this first part is about the thriller book talking about what it’s going to be like coming out.

But we do talk about the, choose your own adventure book and starting off with writing kids books, but then for all the writers out there, we talk about what it’s like to switch genres, what you have to think about what you have to do. And again, he doesn’t have a lot of data yet to back up how well it’s going to go for him, but it was an interesting talk.

So something for everybody. So sit back and enjoy Wilbur. Today, discover the world Smith discovered wordsmith. I happy to have rolled pepper on with me today. And will you look wonderful? I must say thank

[00:02:44] Will: you. Dress for success. That’s what it is

[00:02:46] Stephen: right there. I love that it hearkens back to the dress for the job you want, and I’m going to dress up like Batman getting ready to say, or

[00:02:52] Will: a jet

[00:02:53] Stephen: at night or Jedi Knight.

Yeah, that would fit both. I do have a star wars shirt on, so there you go. Yeah. Perfect. [00:03:00] So will we. This past summer at a very funny event for J thorns mastermind group. And I knew you had done a couple of books and then you talked about changing. So I’m super excited to find out about all of that. But before we get started with bows, tell us a little bit about who you are, where you live in your life outside of writing.

[00:03:23] Will: Sure, sure. Uh, as my name is will pepper, I write under the name w a pepper when I’m going to be transitioning into. I have written several eBooks, but I’ll talk about where I am right now. I live in Oxford, Mississippi with my wife, and we luckily live here when a wonderful literary community. We have square books, which is, uh, one of the top destinations for people who love literature.

And the university has helped. We’ve had lot of good tourism come here because we’re viewed as the literary hub of the south. So it’s a great [00:04:00] place to be. Right. No, you got a lot of good, a lot of good support from people here. And I was for a long time, I call myself a recovering motivational speaker. I did that when I finished my PhD in management information systems, or as I call it business computing and my wife and I traveled the country.

We spoke to people, we worked with organizations, we worked with great groups and then just like a lot of businesses in 2020. And it just, it ended our business. The good thing about that was it really let me focus on my childhood dream of writing. And that’s where I am now. I’m now writing and I’m just loving it.

And I’m enjoying meeting people like you and sharing experiences. That’s something good came out of something bad. Yeah,

[00:04:51] Stephen: that’s awesome. And I love to hear that because I also do some work with kids and their parents and teaching them [00:05:00] basically entrepreneurial choices, things to look forward to when they get older, because the work world is changing.

I love hearing those types of stories that people who got hit and didn’t just go, oh man, what am I going to do? And sit on the couch. Or you took that and ran and you’re doing something you love. I love it.

[00:05:17] Will: That’s so cool that you work with kids about that. The traditional route of you do this. You go to school, you, you do.

I know kids that are making thousands of dollars making bow ties. I’ve read articles about these kids that are doing their own hustle. And it’s just so cool. And so motivating for somebody I’m 42 years old, but I turned 43 and it’s motivating to see kids, you know, saying I can do something I’m energized.

I’m so positive. So that’s cool that you’re doing that with

[00:05:45] Stephen: entrepreneurship is a great thing with the kids because. Parents still, even the ones younger than us, 30, 35 have that mindset of kids go to school. Then they go to college and they get a good job. Or [00:06:00] they go to a tech school and go get a good job.

And they’re like disappearing. And the people that are successful are the ones that can pivot and do something on their own or do multiple things. So we’ll probably talk about some of that when we talk author stuff. Sure. Awesome. Okay. So tell us. Why did you want, okay. You just told us why you wanted to start writing.

I’ll skip that one, but tell us about the book you are working on. Cause you said thriller, which over the summer, when you said that I did a double-take I’m like, wait a second. Will’s not a thriller writer what’s going on here. So tell us about that book.

[00:06:35] Will: Sure. Your tone there. Right? I started with interactive eBooks, which we’ll come back to, but I’ve moved into the thriller genre because it’s what I really enjoy reading.

It’s the type of movie I like to watch. It’s the type of thing that gets in my blood. And I go, oh boy, this is just so fun to watch somebody have a really rough time and overcome the odds. So, uh, in June of next year, we’ll be releasing my [00:07:00] first thriller. It is called you will know vengeance, and it is a first part of a techno thriller trilogy.

And I’m very excited about it because it’s in the editing phase right now, which means it’s passed off to somebody and I can’t touch it. And which is good. Take it away from me. But it is, if you talk about comparing things as a mashup, it is Mr. Robot meets the Shawshank redemption. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. In a world where incarcerated hackers are hidden in a prison, away from society and they must be a, they must capture others to get their freedom.

It follows one person that defies the system. Uh, for eight years, a character named tanto has obeyed his warden’s orders, meeting the minimum capture. But he has protected his tribe while there, however, while working there, he has had to work on the wardens secret project, DACA noodle, and that is a prototype software that is an invasive and discriminary software.

That’s disguised as a [00:08:00] faster tool to catch criminals. But if this isn’t bad enough and immediate danger comes into the prison in the form of a new, legendary prisoner that has built this hell bent on destroying. So now it’s up to tanto to protect his tribe from the monster within the walls, destroy the software and not get caught.

Success means that his life goes back. The way it was failure is either death or worse, a one-way trip to Guantanamo bay. So how far will a man of honor go to rid the world of evil? Bam.

[00:08:32] Stephen: There you go. That’s all we need to know. How long did this take you to, right. Cause I know you switched from a different style.

So about how long were you working on this one?

[00:08:43] Will: I’ve written a couple of a work in progresses and this was one that I was working on back in 2017. I had written it very fast and it was something that I felt very passionate about because I have a background in technology. One of the coolest [00:09:00] things about getting a PhD in technology was that my chairman got named by Dr.

Brian Reidel. He taught me if you’re going to talk about technology, you better talk about it. Like you’re talking to your grandmother. And so it allows me to take technology and break it down. So I’ve broken down. My dissertation made it into something simple to present, but when I got to writing fiction, I said, I might as well write about hackers.

I might’ve will write about hackers that break the law, but. And I had a version of this book in 2017 that I was feeling good about, but unfortunately, life got in the way my mother came down with terminal cancer and we moved to MD Anderson in Houston. And for about nine months, we made sure she got the best care she could.

And that book just sat there. I couldn’t ride on it. And I just, I had a block and I would sometimes write a few words, but I put it to the side and then. One day after my mother passed, I was a last year after my mother had [00:10:00] passed. I was, I had a dream where I was able to control my dreams. I have lucid dreams, so I can do the Neo thing and the matrix I can stop bullets.

I can freeze time. Exactly. As long as I can make the weapons appear, I can make any gun appear, but it always has 2 22 caliber bullets. That’s it. That’s my subconscious messing with me just saying, okay, let’s make it difficult. So. That got me back into writing because I wrote those shorts and those shorts became an interactive eBooks.

And now I’m getting back into my passion of writing thrillers. So this book initially was set up as a standalone, but then are, I’ve read more and more, and I’m sure you have to help people say, write a trilogy, sit there and say, it’s his people in the world, throw your character into a hell of a problem.

And then ultimately bring everything full circle in the third book. So. I got to rewriting this book and split this book and half the books one and two and book three, I am outlining [00:11:00] now, but it is something that I, I had worked on, but I had been away from it for almost two years, maybe closer to three.

And then I was able to step back and I’d learned stuff from online courses, from summits, from things that you and I. And it really helped me shape up the work. So if it existed a couple of years ago, but it’s in a different format now, and I’m really glad to get back into the

[00:11:24] Stephen: broader world. Nice. I was going to ask you, how do you take one book and make it three?

So is it each one has a different focus story. Is there an overarching story what’d you do with that?

[00:11:38] Will: The answer is. I can’t remember if it was Lindsay broker or someone I heard on a podcast. I think Joanna Penn’s creative Penn podcast. Somebody said, when you ride a trilogy, you have to ask a question in act one of your first book and answer it.

Act three of your last book. So I [00:12:00] had a couple of questions. I have a smaller story that’s answered in each book, but the overall story continues through the. So it is you get minor quick matter answers to questions, but there are some times that you go, okay, more information is needed. Sometimes the character has to step back and focus on a particular problem.

Did you ever play in the final fantasy games?

[00:12:23] Stephen: I’ve seen that my kids

[00:12:24] Will: play on. That’s probably an influence, even though it’s a fantasy world, because you start with one main problem. You’ve your character has been thrown out into the woods, also armor, and somebody has betrayed you. So you realize you’re going to have to get the person that betrayed you, but then you have all these submissions that lead up to the final confrontation.

And so those, I grew up on final fantasy, two and three on the super Nintendo, and just thought about the side quests, making them more of a story.

[00:12:57] Stephen: Is this traditionally published or [00:13:00] self-published

[00:13:00] Will: this


[00:13:01] Stephen: so okay. I thought it was

[00:13:04] Will: initially I had thought about going after publishers a couple of years ago. And one of my manuscripts I was thinking about I had solicited and I was trying too hard. I was in too many, John Aras. I was not focused. It was not something that you could say.

You go pick this manuscript up from this area of the book. But with the way that everything is going in the industry to have control of your work when it’s released, how it’s released the red tape that goes through with certain things in traditional publishing with our interactive e-books, the series is called a series of fun mistakes.

100% of the cover price went to charity. We couldn’t have done that with a traditional publisher. They write their jobs. All right. So we were able to say all that we, all the cover price goes to various charities. We raised over $3,000 doing that, but to have the freedom right now [00:14:00] with being self-published to have the tools of advanced reader copies and being able to do your own marketing, it’s a, it’s the way we’re pursuing it is my wife is my publisher, my editor.

She is my number one supporter. She’s also the person. Getting the chair and finish this, make these edits. So it’s really cool to say we have a publishing house it’s called hustle valley press. And it really is a sense of accomplishment to see our publishing doors.

[00:14:29] Stephen: Nice. And I liked that done the press, the valley press and have your own publishing.

Were you ever thinking of doing other people’s books or just yours?

[00:14:40] Will: Possibly in the future right now. It is a, it’s a challenge just to get one out there, Stephen, the word learning so much, we’re going to 20 books, both my wife and I are going to 20 bucks to 50 K in Vegas in 30 days. And we’re absorbing everything we can about when you’re.[00:15:00]

Tik TOK. My life is enjoy it. Show me stuff on it, but publishing under book talk Instabook and all these different things that we’re having to learn, because so much of the writing business is business. I would say that is crucial. I would, if it was up to me, I would just put words on the page and just never published anything.

My wife is the one. Okay. Here’s the date? It’s due.

[00:15:22] Stephen: Get it done. Nice. Nice. Okay. So tell us a little bit about the first books you did and we’ll get more into changing over, but tell us about that series a little more.

[00:15:33] Will: Sure. I have a set. I’m a lucid dreamer. So I dreamed that I was on a space station and I had just woken and I had this glove kind of power glove looking thing on, and this gunman is aiming at me and I don’t know what to do.

And all of a sudden he pulls the trigger and shoots me and then I rewind and then he shoots me and I stopped. And then all of a sudden I did the entire dream like that. Then I woke up and said, [00:16:00] okay, write this down. So I wrote, grabbed a notepad. That’s next to my bed and wrote for about two hours, just wrote these scenarios.

And I grew up reading the, choose your own adventure. Find your fate type books where it says there’s a haunted mansion in front of you. Do you go in the front door or do you go in the basement? And so if you’re going in the front door, you turn to page 12. If you’re going in the basement, you go to page 33, go on the basement.

You’re 33 and it says, oh, there’s a monster. And it kills you. Okay, will you start over? And those books, I actually have a couple of them. And I looked through and those books I realized were written in a way. The endings could go any way you like it. It was something like, oh, it was a hearted match or the match.

It was a movie set or it’s a military base set up like a mansion. And I wanted, because I have a background in technology. I wanted to say a lot of if Ben and elves solution, if you do this [00:17:00] or else you go here and then I started just mapping out a tree, how this would go to get to, if you made the right choices.

The thing that’s crazy about this, Stephen is I never intended on writing more than one book. And then the fan said, where does it go from here? And I was like, oh, I had actually, I had an alternate ending to the first book, which helped me write the series, but it was then, okay, these choose your own adventure type books.

Don’t continue. So they don’t give you a character to follow and side kicks and stuff like that. So it really, let me just jump into some nostalgia, some retro 1980s stuff, ready player, one type thing. I make baseball references. You’ve got it. It just was a very fun way to just write, but also as a publisher, it let us test the waters with short publishing because these things are first one is maybe 20 minutes to read the second and third or 30 to 40 minutes, [00:18:00] but it’s not a a hundred thousand words.

It allowed us to try cover design, marketing, Facebook. It allowed us to take risks with something that was very small and even give the money to charity. So that idea of saying, okay, set up HTML code in a word document, and then upload it to Amazon through EPUB through their Amazon create. And it was just a very fun way to bring technology into something that I grew

[00:18:30] Stephen: up.

Yeah, I agree. I loved to join adventures. In fact, I remember in school when we learned about making flow chart and I latched onto it, I’m like, this is great. I love flow charts. And I didn’t realize how weird that was, but it’s my analytical brain. And that’s what you need to that type of skill to do the, choose your own adventure.

Well, at the time I was thinking of doing maybe a video course for kids, you know how to create, to join adventure. You jumped on to task them and said, [00:19:00] Hey, I wrote a, choose your own adventure. I’m like, oh, damn him,

great minds will go with great

[00:19:07] Will: minds. I love when people ask, how did you do that? And I love sharing it’s it is decision trees. It is mapping it out and just, it is letting your mind wander, but just drawing it out and saying. What is the best that can happen. What’s the worst that can happen. And sometimes it is guiding the reader in a way they don’t want to go.

It is okay. At this point, you only have two choices opposed to three, because we need to get you. The name of the first book is escape from space station, Zulu escape from space station Zola. Okay. It’s not Reuter in space station Zola.

[00:19:44] Stephen: I love that. Choose your own adventure, at least in my mind, because I think kids enjoy reading them.

It’s something different, but I think a lot of kids would enjoy making them just as much if they really sit down and think about it. And it’s not like I have any unique skill or you have a unique [00:20:00] skill on how to create these, it really is a, here’s a block. Here’s a block draw lines and write it in. But I think.

The fun aspect of it that it’s not an overwhelming 60,000 word novel and they can write little bits and pieces and time, and they can have a lot of fun. I think it’s a great exercise.

[00:20:19] Will: Yeah. I totally agree with you. And just, even though it’s technology, everything starts with paper, you just map it out.

And the thing is there’s no wrong. It’s brainstorming in a way that there’s no wrong decision. Uh, the first time I wrote a draft of this, I wrote it a lot, like the old choose your own adventure, where you die a lot. And then my editor slash publisher slash the reason I do anything wife said, okay, this will make people angry.

You can’t kill people that much. And I was like, I died a lot in my childhood. Okay. I went through,

[00:20:54] Stephen: this is revenge. It’ll build character,

[00:20:58] Will: nothing builds a reader. [00:21:00] Checking off.

[00:21:02] Stephen: So your new books, your thrillers, they’re not out yet. So you ever gotten a feedback maybe next time we talk, we’ll find out more about how that’s going, but right now, if you had a choice, would you choose to turn this book, the series into a movie or a TV show?

[00:21:19] Will: TV show I we’re in the golden age of television. I agree. People talk about stuff, but if you ask the average person, do you want to go to the movies or do you want to binge something? They’re going to say bitch, because the quality is just so good. My wife and I are watching midnight mass right now and it’s just fantastic.

Mike Flanagan does fantastic work. He always just pushes the envelope and makes you as a writer. I’m like, okay, this is what’s going to happen. And then I’m wrong. And it’s just, I love being wrong. I love when they surprised us. So it’s, it’s really good. I would love to see this as a series. It would be so much fun.

[00:21:58] Stephen: Cool. And that is [00:22:00] the bane. Once you start getting story and the beats and stuff down that when you watch movies and television, you can either predict it or you can say why it sucks. And I know my family’s basically gotten to the point. They were like, just shut up. We don’t care. We’d like that.

[00:22:15] Will: But you’re again.

You’re right. I think the sharp objects is a great example. Fantastic book that when it came to a series, they were able to flush out so much that they went back to the writer and she wound up writing one of the episodes. It was just nothing but backstory about the main character being institutionalized.

And it was, it just adds so much. When you have Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, all these groups making such quality work, it would be ideal for a series. That’d be

[00:22:46] Stephen: fun. Cool. And I liked that too modern days. They tend to actually use and fall back on the right are a lot more back in, like you mentioned, the eighties, seventies and stuff.

They would buy the book, tell the writer to go [00:23:00] away and they didn’t want anything to do with it. And I think they’re discovering now. That they’re getting better quality work from writers. And even like I’m watching chapel wait from Stephen King, they rewrote a lot of that short story to make it as long as they did.

And they did a fantastic job, but they kept him involved in approving, you know, so I think that’s a benefit of the modern day storytelling in movies and TV shows.

[00:23:25] Will: Definitely you’re completely right. Mentioning Stephen King, the shot Rita Hayworth, and the Shawshank redemption is for the influences for this.

But it’s one of the reasons that movie is so beloved is because that book is a hundred pages. It really allowed Frank durable. I think that’s his name to just bring those characters to life. Have you seen Shawshank? Oh God. Yeah. Okay. So like, like the character of books is only in one paragraph of the entire.

Well, there’s a short story and he is such an such a key character for [00:24:00] understanding the loneliness that you go through when you leave presence. And so I just, the short stories, becoming movies, awesome. The movies becoming series even

[00:24:09] Stephen: better. One of the things I picked up on because chapel weight is based on the short story of Jerusalem blot from night shift and.

It was always like a Fulu here’s spoilers warning, anybody that hasn’t seen it warning, but the story had to do with the worm, which was basically a cut-through Lou died in perceiving king. But then they’re doing this chapel ATV show and they’re tying it into the fam pirates, which was the novel later.

And I was like, huh, I’m not sure if I like that. I went back and re-read the original end. They talk vampires in there too, but just mentioned like one time. So I was like, oh, I never even picked up on that. So yeah. It’s I agree. TV shows nowadays are definitely worth time and money to watch them, but with all the streaming services, It’s just

[00:24:58] Will: so good.

So good. We’re [00:25:00]

[00:25:00] Stephen: we’re very blessed right now. I agree. Totally agree. So you told us about your books plans. Is this going to be only a ebook or are you going to do a print?

[00:25:10] Will: We’re going to, the plan is to go wide. We’re going to, that’s why we’re learning as much as possible about the best way to do a book launch the best way to get your arcs together.

Planning. That’s why it’s in June. That’s why the book is done. It’s being edited right now. That’s hopefully fingers crossed. It gives us time to get the advanced reader copies out there to send it to libraries, to send it to people, to get reviews, to send it to people, to get feedback, beta readers. It’s something that we’re really planning.

We were a small publishing house. And that we have this office and my wife’s office and a storage area in a library, but we want to act as much like a publisher as possible as professional as possible, but we’re going to try it. It’s going to be digital, but also [00:26:00] it’s going to be a hard cover, hopefully hard cover depending on the prices right now.

Understand. I read something recently about how much printing prices of hardcover have shot up, but definitely paperback and hopefully audio book.

[00:26:15] Stephen: Nice. Great. I’ll make sure when it comes out, I’ll come back and edit, but links in so people can follow along. That’d be great. Okay. Let me ask then you, we already know you like choose your own adventure books.

So what are some of your favorite books and authors?

[00:26:31] Will: Let’s see, when it dealt with the choose your own adventure. I grew up reading Douglas Adams, the galaxy.

[00:26:38] Stephen: Do you know what yesterday

[00:26:39] Will: was? Let’s see, that was the anniversary of the release of the book first, which anniversary? Okay. Let’s see. Hold on.

[00:26:51] Stephen: I’ll come.

I don’t know the day. I’m just take a guess. What would you,

[00:26:56] Will: so I’m going to go with.

[00:26:59] Stephen: [00:27:00] 26, you go really kick yourself. How much yesterday was the 42nd anniversary.

[00:27:10] Will: The meaning of life. My wife gave me the collector’s edition when I turned 42 this year. Nice, beautiful books engraved. And it’s a fantastic. I actually gave my heart back copy to a avid reader. One of the people in our, on our art team or our launch team, but she just hadn’t read it as it please enjoy.

And so she’s very excited about that. Yeah, that’s awesome. That was Adams was a big influence for those books as for the thrillers. I would say my top influence is a writer named Brad Meltzer. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Sometimes when I say his name, I think it’s clear author summit. I said Brad Meltzer and people just looked at me.

I was like, okay, write him down and read

[00:27:56] Stephen: everything he’s got. Yeah, I agree. He’s good [00:28:00]

[00:28:00] Will: that I got to follow him. I would say Ruth Ware because that one, I don’t know, Ruth where it can write a gripping opening, a satisfying ending, and it just makes me jealous. That’s just, it’s so well crafted. And I would say Michael Crighton, Tom Clancy.

[00:28:17] Stephen: Yeah, I’ve read several of his books a couple of times. He’s one of my top. Okay. So where you live, I think you mentioned earlier on bookstore, you really like tell us a little more about that bookstore,

[00:28:31] Will: where books has been around probably for 25 plus years. It’s in the it’s on the square of Oxford, which is a very much a great tourist destination.

Um, I go, we live in Oxford and the university of Mississippi is here where they have the rebel football team and they have an area called the growth. And it’s ESPN many times is put, is the number one destination. For college football fans. If you’re going to go to, uh, a football game, you need to visit the [00:29:00] Grove and then go to the game because it is expert tailgate.

You’ll see people with chandelier’s, you’ll see people with just beautiful replicas of there’s a rep of the last scene, which is our central building on campus. Like that actually pores shots okay. Out of the columns, but on the square is square books and it is a two-story beautiful buildings. Authors come from all over and do signings.

Um, John Grisham has one, I think either had one last week or has one next week. Grisham has a, he has a home here. I don’t know if he still has it, but he wrote here a lot, but it’s a beautiful store that has a great staff, very knowledge. And I would love one day to, to have a signing there. It would make me very happy.

[00:29:48] Stephen: Yeah, that sounds really cool. If I ever get out that way, I’d love to go visit it. Call you up. We’ll meet up.

[00:29:53] Will: That’d be great. Sounds fantastic. You got a guest room with your name on it? Not really. It haven’t written your name on it.

[00:29:58] Stephen: You know what though? You should [00:30:00] get a label maker. So when I put it on there, just told you I’ll make the plans.

Um, so before we move on to more author discussion, uh, even more than we’ve already done, Uh, everybody listening. Tell them why they should get your book next June when it comes out.

[00:30:18] Will: Oh my gosh. You know, when you asked me that question, I think because I want to make money, nobody, nothing, but I’ll say this, you will know.

Vengeance is a tight paced, thriller. The hero has to keep one step ahead of his enemies in order to survive. Tanto must make smart decisions. But these choices will hold him because they require sacrifices and they you’ll see these throughout the series. If you like thrillers and rooting for hero, that has all of the odds stacked against him.

This is the book for you.

[00:30:53] Stephen: There you go. Are you going to do a pre-order? Maybe

[00:30:56] Will: yes, we will. I’m not sure when that [00:31:00] start, but we will be doing a pre-order. It will probably be closer to the release date at the end of June, but I’ll keep you up to date.

[00:31:07] Stephen: I’ve got a lot of backlog. So this one may be awhile, not June next year, but it’ll be closer to the release date.

So hopefully people will remember it. Go get that. That’s

[00:31:18] Will: awesome.

[00:31:19] Stephen: Cool. Great. Thanks for telling us about your books. I, I love it. Yeah,

[00:31:23] Will: man.