CS Devereaux declares she’s a southern writer and has a story – Fall from Snowbird Mountain – that uses her southern-ness. She started writing memoirs and morphed into historical fiction.

For the writers, we discuss the use of tools like Pro Writing Aid. There are advantages and disadvantages which we discuss.

NOTE: CS Devereaux chose the topic, but I personally use Pro Writing Aid and recommend it as an affiliate.








Good morning. Welcome to Wor Discovered Wordsmith. See, I’m already fumbling. I wanna welcome CS Devereux to the podcast.

How are you doing today?

Devereaux: I’m doing great, Stephen. It’s good to see you. Good. Thank you for having me on your podcast.

Stephen: Yeah, this is great. I think it’ll be fun. Tell us a little bit about you, who you are and some of the things you like to do, where you live, and that stuff other than writing.

Devereaux: Okay. I grew up in Birmingham, Alabama.

I live in Chattanooga, Tennessee, but I did a vast amount of things in between there and here. I’ve lived in major cities all over the us. I’ve traveled a lot. And had varied career paths, but I’ve always been a creative person whether I was painting or designing or writing. I began my working life in New York City as a flight attendant for a major airline.

And did that for about four years, and then went to work for a marketing company in LA and that took me all over the world. I lived for a few years in Tokyo and Hong Kong while I was with them. And Then moved back across the country to Atlanta cuz I wanted to be closer to home. And I had basically learned how to be a designer while I was with them rather than, I didn’t learn a whole lot about marketing, but I learned a lot about designing.

And I was went to college and got a BFA degree. In painting. I had the instincts there, and so I used that in Atlanta and eventually that led me into carpet and rug design, which if you know anything about the area Atlanta, Dalton, that’s, that. It’s not an unusual place to, to go because in, in my designing, one of my most favorite things to do was to design a custom rug for a client.

I liked, oh, I loved it. I loved the textures and the colors, and just getting my hands in it. And so it was a natural. Transition for me there. And so I stayed in the southeast at that point for the most part, but I still traveled a lot and all along the way I kept journals and so I was always writing.

I actually began writing when I was about a. 11 or 12 years old when my mother gave me a diary and that got me into a lot of trouble. But we can talk about that later. Cuz I started making up stories and So I kept journals and wrote and, but I didn’t begin writing seriously until after I retired about 10

Stephen: years ago.

Okay, great. So you said you were in marketing for a little bit. I’m gonna jump a little bit here. Has, have you found that’s helped you market your own books now?

Devereaux: You would think so, but I don’t know that it has I’m pretty much a loner. I like, I’m like the introverts, introvert.

I don’t like being in front of people. It’s a lot for me just to do this and talk to you. But in, in marketing a book, you do have to get out in front of people and when the marketing. My experience was before was pre-computer, and so I am not particularly technol, technologically savvy.

Much of the marketing, successful marketing, I think is done online and I just don’t know how to do it. I try and, I haven’t even gotten my off my Facebook. Author page set up yet, because I looked at it and I got confused and I said, somebody’s gonna have to help me with this. I asked my husband, he said, I don’t know.

And my son’s too busy. There’s just nobody to help. I go to author fairs and that sort of thing. And since I my book just came out a few months ago, so I’m doing book fair, book the comic cons, the cons with publisher, and just anything that comes up.

Podcasts because it’s easy to talk. And that’s as far as I’ve gotten so far because the actual marketing only could begin. When my book was published, really. I thought that’s when it would be in, and that’s only been three or four months. Okay.

Stephen: Yeah. All right. Let’s talk a little bit about that book fall from Snowbird Mountain.

Tell us a little bit about it and why you wanted to write this book.

Devereaux: Okay. That is an interesting story. The book. Is it takes place in Appalachia during the Civil War era. But it’s not about the Civil War. It’s about a man who lived in what is today, Robbinsville, North Carolina. He was the local school master there, and so he was a good guy.

He had a large family to support, but when the school closed after the start of the war, he lost his livelihood and was having, he just couldn’t support his family and he was desperate for money. A friend offered him an opportunity to and his troubles and invited him to a meeting between him and his partners.

And at that meeting he discovered that the opportunity was counterfeiting and He had a rare, a real, I, this is a true story, so this is not the, that’s not the fiction part. I’m telling you the true part of the story. Okay. Then I’ll tell you, you know how I got to write this story.

He got into the counterfeiting with this group that was the largest counterfeiting ring and that’s ever, that the United States has ever seen, and was with it for about 10 years. And became very instrumental in his area. And though he, part of him wanted to quit, I believe he stayed with it until they caught him and put him in jail.

But meanwhile, he became the county sheriff. And after the war during the war, he disguised himself as a Cherokee Indian to hide from the law because he’d grown up with Cherokees. He spoke the language, he knew the culture. And he did that. That, to me, that was just so fascinating that he could do all of that like a chameleon and so the way, and it’s a very interesting book.

Very, people are loving this book actually. Nice. The way I came to write it is when I began writing, I started writing memoirs because I, as much as I don’t like getting out in front of people, I really like studying people. I’ve always been a people watcher. I love doing research and just getting into the nitty gritty of things and basically have been a student of people my whole life, I’ve always been curious about them and what made people do the things that they do, and So memoirs were a good way for me to get started.

After I had retired, I was fooling around, taking online classes from one of the local universities university of Tennessee, and but didn’t have a direction, and that was one of my problems. I never had a direction, and so a friend asked me one time if you could do anything, what would you do?

If you could write anything, what would you write? And I said, I think I would write memoirs because it just seems like something that’s always been fascinating. So I wrote a couple of memoirs and then another friend asked me if I would write about her mother and her family and told me there had been a terrible tragedy.

And sh and that no one had ever really written about and she thought it would make a great book. But the problem was she couldn’t tell me anything about it. She just said it happened and where it happened, but she couldn’t, she didn’t know anything about her family or. The details of this terrible tragedy.

So I was gonna have to just dig deep and do it all myself, figure it all out. So I thought it’s a challenge and I like a challenge. I started digging into her family’s history and as I went back to a couple of generations, I discovered her great-grandfather and he. Is the man I’ve been telling you about.

He was so fascinating. I decided that’s where my book had to start. That if I could write this book, then I’d be able to write her book and which is I’m doing now. And so that’s how it came about.

Stephen: Okay, great. That’s a cool story and I love the research behind it. So can, are there any other books that you can think of out there that are similar for people that might be interested in reading yours?

Devereaux: Similar but a stretch I would say would be Cold Mountain by Charles Frazier. Okay. And maybe any of Sharon Macro’s ballads like Ball of Tom Dooley. Even a greater stretch might be the known world by Edward P. Jones. Okay. But it’s historical fiction. It’s mostly, it’s about true events and with embellishments and and in a lot of inspiration and imagination where to fill up the holes in between.


Stephen: And you mentioned the other book you’re working on just give us a little, a brief about when that’ll be out, a little bit more about it. Maybe. I can’t

Devereaux: really say when it’ll be out. Okay. Cause I I’m not quite halfway through it, but it ta it follows my protagonist in the first book.

The mistakes he made follow his family into the next generation, and it takes place in 1922. Okay. I’m not gonna tell you anything more about it.

Stephen: Perfect. That’s fine. That’s fine. So it’s a series. Do you have any Yeah

Devereaux: It’s also a mystery. Okay. It’s a mystery, a murder mystery, and and a terrible tragedy that relates just like the first book does.

It relates a lot to things that are going on in the world

Stephen: today. Nice. And do you have plans for a third in the series or you continue it or? No, this is gonna be it. Just a duology, yeah. Okay, nice. Yeah, my friend is,

Devereaux: she doesn’t get more than two books about her family.

Stephen: Got it. Okay. So you said there’s been a lot of good feedback from readers and you’ve been doing Li Life Faires, you’re having face-to-face communication, talking with these people. What are they saying about

Devereaux: the book? Oh, the feedback has been outstanding. I have, right now five stars on Amazon and five stars on my publisher jump, master Press, their website, and people who have read the book they just say, it’s says page Turner.

And fascinating as they love the historical details and the descriptions that bring the characters and the setting to life. They love that it’s a true story and that it’s a, about a part of the civil war that no one really has written about before, and that’s counterfeiting.

Stephen: Nice. Okay. So you got that unique angle with some things in it that people like from those types of stories.

I love that. So you’ve got a book out and a second book coming. If someone said, Hey, we love this, would you like to see it turned into a movie or a TV show? What would you choose?

Devereaux: Oh my goodness. I think it could be either. Recently I heard someone make a comparison between the two, and this person had a career as a writer in television, and he said that Movies are a director’s medium, while TV is a writer’s medium, because while movies have a script, of course the director actually directs the movie.

But in TV, the, you have a whole team of writers and they get into a room and they talk everything, and they’re the ones who are directing the story in the series that you’re watching. And I almost think that it might, if this were made into became a visual entertainment, it might do better as a limited episode series on TV because it would take a lot of money.

A lot of money to put this on a big screen with battle scenes and that sort of thing. There aren’t many, but there, there are a lot of characters and there would just be so much, I think it would be better because of the human quality of it, if it was on tv.

Stephen: Nice. Okay. And I love that description of the difference between movies and television.

I think that nails it right on the head. It does. It’s a good thing to think about. And that also explains why. A lot of times you get those books turned into movies that you’re like, eh, not as disappointing. They’re more disappointing because you can really sink into a book and imagine a lot of stuff in your head.

Whereas the movie, it’s a little more flat. You don’t get, like you said, the character buildup like you do in TV now, especially with the way they treat TV now with limited series and it’s not. September through May 24 episodes. It’s whenever eight to 10 episodes. Yeah. So totally different than used to be.

Yeah. With

Devereaux: TV you can go back and re-watch

Stephen: something. Yes. Nowadays, back 40 years ago, that was a totally different story. I think it was very different 40

Devereaux: years

Stephen: ago. Yes. I think that’s why. Most authors, have that feeling of, oh, I’d to have it turned into a movie. But honestly, it seems like the limited series TV shows are doing much better at making these books come alive.

I’m not a big thriller reader, but. I watched the Reacher series and I thought it was fantastic and read the book and fell in love with Lee Child’s style of writing. So I probably I didn’t do any of that after the two Tom Cruise movies. It was a TV show that made difference. All right.

CS, do you have a website that people could go visit and see your book and any future books?

Devereaux: Yes. The website is my name is cs devero.com and DeVero is D E V E R E A U X.

Stephen: Okay. And we’ll make sure and put links to that. Maybe if it may

Devereaux: be backwards, but let’s see. Can you see it there?

Stephen: Yep. No, it’s fine.

Yes. I love that with people. I’ll put in the show notes also. I’ll put a link to the book. For you personally, what are some of your favorite books and authors?

Devereaux: Oh most of the books that I love are by southern authors and A lot of them are historical fiction. I would say William Faulkner, Tru Truman, Capote, Flannery O’Connor, but also contemporary authors like Ron Rash and Sharon McClum.

Charles Frazier. Daniel Wallace. But I also like spy thrillers. I have always loved spy thrillers, so John Le Carre and Graham Green and Ken Fett, who is both a historical fiction writer and you right, the thrillers the first book of his I ever read was Eye of the Needle. Okay. And I loved it and I saw the movie and I loved that just as much.

And I didn’t know at the time that he also wrote historical fiction until I was in an airport somewhere and picked up a book that looked interesting. And he was the author and it was World Without End, which was the end of a trilogy that he had written. And so he is actually responsible for me finding my fi finally finding a direction that I wanted to be a historical fiction writer.

Nice. Cause I, when I picked up that book, I was writing memoirs at the time I had read. Other things of his without, really even remembering. When I looked through a list of what he had written, but the eye of the needle stood out. And then I went, when I finished world Without End, I just said, wow, this is how I wanna write.

Could I ever do that? Could I, and I said, no, I don’t think I can. It’s just too good. And then I said you won’t know unless you try. So I’m trying to write like Ken Fett.

Stephen: Nice. Ok. So for anyone that likes Ken Fett, check out your book because you’re trying to be similar. So very different. Of course.

Yeah. Ok. So I actually have a couple other friends in the Chattanooga area. Maybe you’ll run into them at some fair or something sometime. But do you have any favorite bookstores that you like to frequent?

Devereaux: No. To tell you the truth, Chattanooga doesn’t any longer have an awful lot of independent bookstores cuz I like independent bookstores the best.

During the pandemic we lost several of them. We now have a store called Winder Binder, and then we have a fairly new one that opened during the pandemic called book and cover. And they’re both very good. Book and cover. Focuses a lot on children’s books, but they carry, they carry pretty much everything.

They also promote local authors. And winder binder, while they don’t do so much promoting, they carry local authors books and they carry both used and new and just a lot of other things too. But another favorite, which is just like the hands down, easy Pick is Barnes and Noble. And they are special because they’re as a franchise, the franchise owner also.

Carries local authors and helps to promote them. Nice. They have a, an open mic night every, once a month and we can get up there and talk and, present our books for sale and that sort of thing. You know that’s another way, that’s another way to market my books. Yes.

Nice. I love that. Yeah. That’s, those are the three.

Stephen: Okay, great. I’ll put some links in the show notes. I like helping out bookstores, and not the authors. All so we wanna talk a little author stuff, but before we do if somebody came up to you on the street and said, Hey, I heard you wrote a book.

Why should I get your book and read it? What would you tell ’em?

Devereaux: Because it’s good. It is a true story about family and human frailties and very relatable situations. And it, while it’s a story of desperation and destruction due to war is also a movie about, a book about money and greed and intrigue.

So it, it hits a lot of buttons and so that’s what I’d tell ’em. I’d say Go buy

Stephen: the book. Okay, great. There you go. We were talking about getting to write your book and things you’ve been learning. So what are a few things you’ve learned with this first book that you’re applying to the second book?

Devereaux: Oh, that I’m applying to the second book. What I learned with the first book is not to use passive verbs.

Stephen: Ah, okay.

Devereaux: Yeah, that was a big one because it, there was a, that’s a hard one to learn. That and head hopping. But I think it’s hard for a lot of people because we talk, we speak in passive voice very often, especially southerners.

And so when, if you think in that way, I, in using was, let’s just start with was,

Stephen: and I have a problem with that one too.

Devereaux: Yeah. And so it, it doesn’t take very much, rethinking to turn a sentence around and put it in an active voice, and Say I did, this happened.

Not, it’s just a different way of thinking. And when you start writing that way, I also find out that my, my speech gets better too. That I’m a lot more direct, I don’t so southern anymore. I’m just more direct in my speech pattern. But that was a biggie. The passive verbs and also head hopping.

I belong to an excellent writer’s group. That’s another thing that I learned while I was writing the book, that you cannot write in a vacuum that you really need feedback from other people. About the work that you write and the best feedback is gonna come from other writers. And because they’ll be honest with you.

Your friends will pat you on the back and say, Hey,

Stephen: yes, this is great.

Devereaux: Not helpful. Yeah. But another writer will say this stinks, right? You need a total rewrite here. Let me tell you what you need to do. And that’s the beauty of the writer’s group. They say, let me tell you what you know, what will help you.

And they’re not critical in, in a negative way. They’re always very positive to, lift. We lift each other up. And so that’s another very important thing I learned is,

Stephen: and if you do find a writer’s group where you feel like they’re tearing you down, everybody’s just critical. That’s the wrong, I’m a different writers group because that might not be the right one for you.

No, and I know there’s one writer’s group I’ve been a part of where. Two of the strongest personalities are both like thriller writers. So when they give feedback on anybody else’s stuff, it’s always from the thriller writer viewpoint, and that doesn’t always fit everything else. Romance and horror.

I’ve heard them give critiques on romance and horror, and I’m like, wait a second. This is a horror novel. You’re trying to turn it into a thriller novel. They’re different. They have different buildup and setup, so the advice you’re giving them will hurt them in the horror genre. And, there’s a little bit of clashing going on there.

Yeah. Yeah.

Devereaux: The writers in my group, none of them write horror or science fiction or anything like that. I wish that I had more contact with people like that because, not because I wanna write that, but it would be really fascinating to see the differences and learn how the different media, what, the different genres are put

Stephen: together, and also what you said earlier about the passive verbs. I think a lot of writers I had yeah, I did a check on, my early stuff and like every other sentence, I started with an I N G word. Yeah. And I’m like, oh my gosh, this I can’t believe.

And I’m like, but what’s wrong with that? And then I started learning and changing it and writing more, and I’m like, oh, I see it now. I understand why. So that’s always my advice when I see writers who are newer than me, I’m not. Years of experience. I don’t have tons of books out, but I have reached a point where I know I am the next level or so, a above somebody that’s brand new, so I can help them out a little bit.

And the advice I’ve been giving more often is, Stop worrying about editing that one story over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over because you’re not going to help yourself. You reach a point where you’re not changing it enough or learning anything new to make it better you’re much better off stopping and just moving on to another story, writing another book, writing some short stories.

You, you don’t really. Understand some of the advice or some of the things that make the writing better until your five, six things written down the road and then you can look back. But if you’re focused on that one piece yeah you miss a lot of it. Yeah. So that’s been my advice lately.

Devereaux: And then there’s a couple of other things too.

When you’re writing, I think it’s helpful to use a good digital. Writing program. Yes. Yes. I use pro writer’s aid. Me too. Yes. And I, that has helped me a lot. And also with the passive verbs and the garns. I wasn’t even sure what a garrin was. It was those little i n g words. It won’t make you a better writer. Although they have a new feature, a new AI type feature that will help your sentence structure. Yes. That I use once in a while and I never copy it, but it gives me ideas, of how to make my sentence better. Because if, sometimes they’ll just be this one sentence that just bugs the heck outta you.

You can’t quite find the right words to make it work. And and you go in there and they can they give you different choices of how you could. Move the words around and you go, oh yeah, that’s pretty close to what I’m looking for. And Got it. And Let’s see. Oh, there was one other thing.

It’ll come back to me cuz it was

Stephen: I also use pro writing aid and love it. And I know there’s some authors out there taking a big stand against these programs, especially with some of the new AI tools added to it. But I, and I’m not going to really get into that argument with them. Hey, that’s your choice.

Okay, fine. But for me personally I don’t have. Too much life to spend arguing about these things and debating it. My whole point is I use it as a tool to make my writing better. I don’t throw my manuscript in there, hit fix everything and be done with it. I read it, I evaluate it, I look at everything.

I learn from it, and my writing’s improve. Yes. Because it’s teaching me. Yes. And that’s the best way to use it. And the way I feel is if this tool can help me. Make better writing and make more sales, I’m going to use it. If it’s not hurting somebody else, if it’s not stepping on somebody else’s head to get higher, this is helping me without hurting you.

And so I’m going to use it and help make, get a get done faster, get done better, have more sales and the thing. But the thing is, what I’ve also come to discover is there’s. Separation, I think between the craft of your writing and the sentences and your story itself, because people will remember the story itself way longer than any problems in your grammar and spelling and all that.

But if you have too many of those problems, it draws them out of the story. It does. So there, it’s a balancing act and I always try and err on the side of good story as opposed to worrying so much about the grammar and that, because I’ve read hundreds of books. I cannot tell you good sentences, good chapters, and specific grammar in any of those books.

Cuz I forgot all about it. But I remember the story when the

Devereaux: story’s good, you don’t notice that. Yes. And only a writer like you and me is gonna notice those little things, right? Oh they should, you could have used a better word there. Or, that’s misspelled,

Stephen: yes.

It can pull you out. Especially if it’s continuous. Badly worded sentences. Yeah. So it’s good to start that. But if you’re at, if your writing is where your sentence structure is so bad continuously, then you really do need to do some work and learn some things. Again, if you’re not going to school, you’re not having feedback.

Using one of these tools, writing, a 7,000 word short story and running it through the tool to learn and then forgetting about it and writing in our story is you’re learning that’s, in school, even if you take a test and you learn a module and you don’t do so well. They don’t always have time to stop and reteach it to you.

I know my kids’ school did some of that, but they move on, so it builds on it, and at some point down the line, the earlier stuff usually starts to make sense and click a little more. So sometimes you just have to keep moving to help out the earlier stuff too. That’s true.

Devereaux: The other point I was gonna make is that writers need to read good quality.

Books, they need to read the work of other really good writers.

Stephen: Yes. Define good quality though, because that is very subjective and Yes, and I know a lot of people will say, oh, Stephen King sucks because this, and this. But I’m like, but that’s true, but here’s what he does. So when I read Stephen King, which I love, I’ve read almost all his stuff.

These are the things he does well that I can learn from. Sure. A lot of his endings get horrible and it’s what were you thinking? But the way he draws you into the world and the characters and makes it come alive, that’s a lesson we, and obviously it works. I don’t care all the problems you can tell me about.

And Lee Child, which we mentioned, I noticed his writing. He has short sentences. Short words and that’s mostly it, almost all the way through the book. And that’s total opposite of what some writers try and do. They want these big, flowery sentences? No, he just writes and you keep turning the page.

Totally different style of writing. So it’s very subjective to say, good writers, something that you enjoy. Somebody that. Has sold a lot of books. That’s the court of popular opinion, you could say.

Devereaux: This is true. That’s the, you know what the quality is and good is defined according to the genre and according to your own personal taste.

Yes. But the, and you just. Made me think of something else about the sentence links. That’s another thing that you have to learn that would, works with one genre, but maybe not another one is that the pacing, the short sentences are what make up a scene move faster. Yes.

And then, if you wanna, when you wanna slow it down, then you can go to the longer sentences and relax and, meander along for a paragraph, but then, speed it back up again as you’re approaching the next, the next piece of drama or, and you learn how to build.

Stephen: Yes, and you just said it again. You learn how to build. To learn how to do that though, you have to keep writing more and more things. Go straight back to that. And recently I picked up tokens, the Hobbit. It’s the fourth or fifth time I’ve read it. But I’m seeing things totally different than I did the last time I read it, which probably was a good 20 some years ago.

His style of writing is as if. He was sitting at a campfire just telling you a story and that’s how it’s written. Yeah. And I never realized that before and it’s so casual in how he does that. Totally different than something like Rothfuss name of the Wind, which is a more modern fantasy. So I’m like, wow, I never realized that about tokens Writing before is how casual and it’s.

Stephen King has a lot of that too. That down home a shucks feel.

Devereaux: I like. Yeah, I love that. In fact, I just reread The Hobbit myself over the Christmas

Stephen: holidays. Nice. Yeah I’ve read the I read the Lord of the Ring’s trilogy because the second time in high school, because our English teacher, we had to write book reports and the last on the list was Tolkiens Trilogy.

And she goes, but. You probably don’t wanna read that because that was my master’s thesis in school, so I know it well. Okay. Challenge accepted. And you know what, she marked me wrong for something on that report that I pulled out the book and showed her I was right. She refused to even look at and said, I know what I’m talking about.

I was like, are you kidding me? But I’ve never cared for the trilogy. In return of the King as much as I did, like Hobbit and Fellowship, there’s just return of the king gets, I don’t know, too dry and confusing for me. Yeah. All so we’ve been chatting, I’ve been running on, I apologize if I took too much time there.

These are some we’ve given some advice for new authors. Is there anything else you would tell new authors? Listening that are just starting out.

Devereaux: Yeah. I gave this a little bit of thought before this podcast and if I wanted to give some sage advice to young authors, what would I say? And the very first thing, and I think it’s really important, is to write what you love.

They tell you all the time to write what you know. And that’s important because as I said, I like spy thrillers, but I would never attempt to write a spy thriller because I don’t know that world. I didn’t live it. And I think you really have to live it in order to write something like that. But if you write what you love, Then your passion is gonna show through, for what you’re doing.

And the second thing we’ve touched on a lot of different points danced around this during our conversation. And I was writing down my notes and then I came across just by chance this piece of Japanese philosophy called Rahi. Hari, it means follow, break away, transcend.

And follow is means study the basics of good writing. You’ll learn the rules, learn from the masters and the experts, and that’s shoot and then break away. And once you understand the fundamentals of writing, then use your creativity in unique and intuitive ways. That’s ha. And then and combining your creativity with the traditional skills.

And then the last part is transcend, is express your creativity. And, uniquely and using your intuition and just, go rise above where you ever thought you could go before. Just let yourself go. That’s ri and that’s Sri. And so nice. Yeah, I thought that was beautiful. And the last thing that I wanted to say was that I think could apply to anyone, whether it’s writing of someone who wants to be a writer or who wants to follow any dream.

To paraphrase f Scott Fitzgerald, it’s never too late or too soon to be whoever you want to be. You can change or stay the same. It’s your choice. But live a life you’re proud of, and if you’re not, have the courage to start over

Stephen: again. I love that. I’m not a big Fitzgerald fan, but that’s probably one of the best quotes I’ve ever heard from him.

I love that. CS it has been really fun talking to you. I enjoyed myself this morning. It’s still morning here. Yeah. So I wish you luck on Songbird and your next book. Maybe we’ll touch base again once it comes out. Snowbird, fall from Snowbird, sorry.

Everyone’s gonna be looking for this songbird book by you. No, it’s Snowbird. Yeah, sorry about that. Alright, so I wish you luck on that.

Devereaux: For that I’m gonna write a book and title it

Stephen: Songbird, please do that. Instead of me fixing what I said, now you have to write a book so that you know it works out.

Maybe some alternative universe. It’s all good. Great. All right. You have a great day.

Devereaux: Thank you, Steven. It’s been a pleasure.